Comments on: Why Sci-Fi shows are dying http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2009/11/11/why-sci-fi-shows-are-dying/ Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:08:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: ojimenez http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2009/11/11/why-sci-fi-shows-are-dying/#comment-8667 ojimenez Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:18:23 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/?p=4723#comment-8667 The cover of the latest issue of Foreign Policy magazine: "How TV Can Still Save the World" with the famous image of a child in front of a snowy TV screen (Poltergeist.) The world's most popular TV shows after surveying 66 countries with 1.6 billion viewers between them-from Australia to Japan, Latvia to Venezuela--Eurodata TV Worldwide named the winners for the world's most-watched shows of 2008. What does the world watch? Category: DRAMA Winner: House 81.8 million viewers worldwide Runners up: CSI Miami and CSI Vegas Category: COMEDY Winner: Desperate Housewives 56.3 million viewers Runners-up: Monk and Ugly Betty Category: SOAP OPERA Winner: The Bold and the Beautiful 24.5 million viewers Runnners-up: Marina and The Yound and the Restless. "In the future, the world will be wathing 24 billion hours of TV a day." The cover of the latest issue of Foreign Policy magazine:
“How TV Can Still Save the World” with the famous image of a child in front of a snowy TV screen (Poltergeist.) The world’s most popular TV shows after surveying 66 countries with 1.6 billion viewers between them-from Australia to Japan, Latvia to Venezuela–Eurodata TV Worldwide named the winners for the world’s most-watched shows of 2008.

What does the world watch?

Category: DRAMA
Winner: House 81.8 million viewers worldwide
Runners up: CSI Miami and CSI Vegas

Category: COMEDY
Winner: Desperate Housewives 56.3 million viewers
Runners-up: Monk and Ugly Betty

Category: SOAP OPERA
Winner: The Bold and the Beautiful 24.5 million viewers
Runnners-up: Marina and The Yound and the Restless.

“In the future, the world will be wathing 24 billion hours of TV a day.”

]]> By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2009/11/11/why-sci-fi-shows-are-dying/#comment-8662 Eugenia Mon, 16 Nov 2009 06:08:58 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/?p=4723#comment-8662 LOST is not meant to be viewed "here and there". You will have to watch ALL episodes, in ORDER. Otherwise, of course and you will be lost. It's a complex show. LOST is not meant to be viewed “here and there”. You will have to watch ALL episodes, in ORDER. Otherwise, of course and you will be lost. It’s a complex show.

]]> By: ojimenez http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2009/11/11/why-sci-fi-shows-are-dying/#comment-8660 ojimenez Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:58:21 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/?p=4723#comment-8660 I haven't watched TV regularly, in nearly 5 years. (no elitist reason) When I do, I often peek over my wife's shoulder at some of the shows she pre-records. One of those is LOST, and I'm basically, LOST, when I see the one or two episodes. She thinks is one of the smartest shows around, and she's a good judge of these things. When I watch it, I cannot help but think "yuck" if this is smart, I'm really glad I don't torture myself by sitting in front of the flat-screen. The other few shows, which I barely stand, and shall remain nameless, so as to not bring the wrath of cult followers, have dialogue for five-year-olds, characters are as flat as the screen of the television, and plots so predictable my five-year-old could write them (oh yeah she's their target audience, I think) My biggest pet peeve is when the character's dialogue is written to explain things to the viewer: " yeah, and you know nursery rhymes dealt with death, like ring-around-the-rosy was actually blha-blah blah ..." good grief! My feeling is that whomever is producing this rubish is using focus groups and polls to determine what will appeal to the "average viewer" and will not piss off their politicaly correct-average sponsor".... *double yuck* The world is stuck in Plato's "second life" and entertainment is no longer a past-time but THE reason for living, it seems. I can't offer any alternatives,like Melville said: "Go mad I cannot: I maintain The perilous outpost of the sane." I haven’t watched TV regularly, in nearly 5 years. (no elitist reason) When I do, I often peek over my wife’s shoulder at some of the shows she pre-records. One of those is LOST, and I’m basically, LOST, when I see the one or two episodes. She thinks is one of the smartest shows around, and she’s a good judge of these things.

When I watch it, I cannot help but think “yuck” if this is smart, I’m really glad I don’t torture myself by sitting in front of the flat-screen. The other few shows, which I barely stand, and shall remain nameless, so as to not bring the wrath of cult followers, have dialogue for five-year-olds, characters are as flat as the screen of the television, and plots so predictable my five-year-old could write them (oh yeah she’s their target audience, I think)

My biggest pet peeve is when the character’s dialogue is written to explain things to the viewer: ” yeah, and you know nursery rhymes dealt with death, like ring-around-the-rosy was actually blha-blah blah …” good grief! My feeling is that whomever is producing this rubish is using focus groups and polls to determine what will appeal to the “average viewer” and will not piss off their politicaly correct-average sponsor”…. *double yuck*

The world is stuck in Plato’s “second life” and entertainment is no longer a past-time but THE reason for living, it seems. I can’t offer any alternatives,like Melville said: “Go mad I cannot: I maintain The perilous outpost of the sane.”

]]> By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2009/11/11/why-sci-fi-shows-are-dying/#comment-8658 Eugenia Sun, 15 Nov 2009 02:25:44 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/?p=4723#comment-8658 ><i>the last network "space" show was the recent "Defying Gravity" on ABC (unfortunately, very soap-opera-in-space). What, you didn't catch it? What a shock!</i> I actually did. It sucked. I tweeted about it a few times on Twitter. >the last network “space” show was the recent “Defying Gravity” on ABC (unfortunately, very soap-opera-in-space). What, you didn’t catch it? What a shock!

I actually did. It sucked. I tweeted about it a few times on Twitter.

]]> By: liptich http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2009/11/11/why-sci-fi-shows-are-dying/#comment-8652 liptich Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:20:22 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/?p=4723#comment-8652 "LOST hooked people mostly with its first 4 episodes for example." That has been my analysis too, I didn't know about the insane budget they put into the first two episodes. I am also saddened by the quality of the scifi shows so far, and still can't get NCIS audience numbers !! Rgds “LOST hooked people mostly with its first 4 episodes for example.”
That has been my analysis too, I didn’t know about the insane budget they put into the first two episodes.
I am also saddened by the quality of the scifi shows so far, and still can’t get NCIS audience numbers !!

Rgds

]]> By: Emi http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2009/11/11/why-sci-fi-shows-are-dying/#comment-8648 Emi Sat, 14 Nov 2009 04:01:13 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/?p=4723#comment-8648 I have to say, I think the problem has more to do with the impatience of TV Execs. Epic shows, whatever the genre, take time for people to connect with them. TV Execs want immediate results to justify huge budgets. Also, the current ratings system still doesn't accurately reflect the way people watch television programming now. Nielsen is trying to adapt by reporting statistics for shows being recorded on DVR. Time-/place-/format-shifting is really common, <em>especially</em> among the younger demographics, and TV Execs and advertisers still don't really know how to capitalize on it. Addressing your points, first, show after show has shown that good writing doesn't really correlate with popularity. We can point to Lost, which I agree is a great show with good writing. But, conversely, you can point to well-written and engaging shows that have done very poorly - the mascot for which is Firefly (I <3 Nathan Fillion!). Your point about a lot of sci-fi television writing being space soap operas (a.k.a. "space operas";)) is accurate. But, again, look at how popular soap operas are, even primetime has become riddled with them. Your second point is accurate. That's something that is true for TV as a whole and really has nothing to do with the genre. To your third point, well, to be honest, I'm not really sure that Lost by itself is enough to really show a correlation between spend more $ = be more popular! I'd be interested to see some real stats for that. However, I would actually think with the continual improvement and price-reduction of CG, you can actually do a lot more with less on genre shows. Fourth, sorry, I can't help but correct you, the last network "space" show was the recent "Defying Gravity" on ABC (unfortunately, very soap-opera-in-space). What, you didn't catch it? What a shock! </sarcasm> Fifth, well, clearly from your post, you're really talking about hard sci-fi. Obviously, the space race drove a lot of interest in space and space exploration and science fiction as a result. That is long over, but to attack NASA for that is a bit harsh, don't you think? They are doing a lot with a little. (I think) Unfortunately, space exploration is not a priority in the US budget anymore, yet NASA is developing and just tested a new rocket to replace the <em>very</em> outdated space shuttle. They're developing ion drives to speed up transit time to Mars. They're BLOWING UP the friggin' MOON. How cool is that? Okay, my NASA is still cool rant is over now. (Wow, this post is long, I apologize to anyone still reading. :) ) However, I think there is still a lot of interest in sci-fi as a genre, just not necessarily "hard" sci-fi. Personally, as a college-educated young person who is a big fan of the genre, I find a lot of hard sci-fi inaccessible. I much prefer character and story driven sci-fi over tech or science driven sci-fi. This is one reason I really like Lost, it's very character-driven. I also really enjoy Dollhouse, and SGU is the only Stargate series I've had any interest in at all. I have to say, I think the problem has more to do with the impatience of TV Execs. Epic shows, whatever the genre, take time for people to connect with them. TV Execs want immediate results to justify huge budgets.

Also, the current ratings system still doesn’t accurately reflect the way people watch television programming now. Nielsen is trying to adapt by reporting statistics for shows being recorded on DVR. Time-/place-/format-shifting is really common, especially among the younger demographics, and TV Execs and advertisers still don’t really know how to capitalize on it.

Addressing your points, first, show after show has shown that good writing doesn’t really correlate with popularity. We can point to Lost, which I agree is a great show with good writing. But, conversely, you can point to well-written and engaging shows that have done very poorly – the mascot for which is Firefly (I <3 Nathan Fillion!). Your point about a lot of sci-fi television writing being space soap operas (a.k.a. "space operas";)) is accurate. But, again, look at how popular soap operas are, even primetime has become riddled with them.

Your second point is accurate. That's something that is true for TV as a whole and really has nothing to do with the genre.

To your third point, well, to be honest, I'm not really sure that Lost by itself is enough to really show a correlation between spend more $ = be more popular! I'd be interested to see some real stats for that. However, I would actually think with the continual improvement and price-reduction of CG, you can actually do a lot more with less on genre shows.

Fourth, sorry, I can't help but correct you, the last network "space" show was the recent "Defying Gravity" on ABC (unfortunately, very soap-opera-in-space). What, you didn't catch it? What a shock! </sarcasm>

Fifth, well, clearly from your post, you're really talking about hard sci-fi. Obviously, the space race drove a lot of interest in space and space exploration and science fiction as a result. That is long over, but to attack NASA for that is a bit harsh, don't you think? They are doing a lot with a little. (I think) Unfortunately, space exploration is not a priority in the US budget anymore, yet NASA is developing and just tested a new rocket to replace the very outdated space shuttle. They’re developing ion drives to speed up transit time to Mars. They’re BLOWING UP the friggin’ MOON. How cool is that? Okay, my NASA is still cool rant is over now.

(Wow, this post is long, I apologize to anyone still reading. :) )

However, I think there is still a lot of interest in sci-fi as a genre, just not necessarily “hard” sci-fi. Personally, as a college-educated young person who is a big fan of the genre, I find a lot of hard sci-fi inaccessible. I much prefer character and story driven sci-fi over tech or science driven sci-fi. This is one reason I really like Lost, it’s very character-driven. I also really enjoy Dollhouse, and SGU is the only Stargate series I’ve had any interest in at all.

]]> By: Liam http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2009/11/11/why-sci-fi-shows-are-dying/#comment-8638 Liam Fri, 13 Nov 2009 03:47:33 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/?p=4723#comment-8638 I trust you don't think Lost is hard sci-fi. Assuming you don't, I can't think of any sci-fi show that has been hard sci-fi. Also, look at the audience. Comics sell very well, along with the movies, and most of those are very far from hard sci-fi. Smallville has been on air around 8 years and, again, not hard sci-fi. So, hard sci-fi isn't necessarily the way to go. However, intelligent writing is always necessary but not always sufficient(see Dollhouse or Firefly). Basically I think nearly all (excepting the writers issue and great pilot) of your points are invalid. Though they certainly have elements of truth, I think the reasons for the failure is mainly none of the sci-fi shows I've seen recently(SG:U is the exception with its BSG style but my hopes have been dashed as it has rapidly returned to its Stargate roots) begin very strongly. Lost set the bar for recent shows, IMHO, but you can't have something like Dollhouse where it takes a person more than a season before they actually get interested in the show (speaking for myself). If the show hadn't been by Whedon (who always makes shows/movies I like, though his comics are very "meh") I would've dropped it after only a few episodes. Only for the last few episodes has the show finally found its voice, IMO, and gotten to the point where I actually look forward to it. Best/Liam I trust you don’t think Lost is hard sci-fi. Assuming you don’t, I can’t think of any sci-fi show that has been hard sci-fi. Also, look at the audience. Comics sell very well, along with the movies, and most of those are very far from hard sci-fi. Smallville has been on air around 8 years and, again, not hard sci-fi. So, hard sci-fi isn’t necessarily the way to go. However, intelligent writing is always necessary but not always sufficient(see Dollhouse or Firefly).
Basically I think nearly all (excepting the writers issue and great pilot) of your points are invalid. Though they certainly have elements of truth, I think the reasons for the failure is mainly none of the sci-fi shows I’ve seen recently(SG:U is the exception with its BSG style but my hopes have been dashed as it has rapidly returned to its Stargate roots) begin very strongly. Lost set the bar for recent shows, IMHO, but you can’t have something like Dollhouse where it takes a person more than a season before they actually get interested in the show (speaking for myself). If the show hadn’t been by Whedon (who always makes shows/movies I like, though his comics are very “meh”) I would’ve dropped it after only a few episodes. Only for the last few episodes has the show finally found its voice, IMO, and gotten to the point where I actually look forward to it.

Best/Liam

]]> By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2009/11/11/why-sci-fi-shows-are-dying/#comment-8637 Eugenia Fri, 13 Nov 2009 02:33:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/?p=4723#comment-8637 <em><i> >its not as epic as you seem to think… its just a bunch of guys on an island</i></em> Yes, but that island IS the universe on LOST. Therefore, it is epic. <em>>Who cares?! Come on!</em> I do! As I explained above, in this day and age, where most people went to some college, hard science matters. <em>>If you think you know the recipe then send it to them.</em> The recipe is linked from the above article. >its not as epic as you seem to think… its just a bunch of guys on an island

Yes, but that island IS the universe on LOST. Therefore, it is epic.

>Who cares?! Come on!

I do! As I explained above, in this day and age, where most people went to some college, hard science matters.

>If you think you know the recipe then send it to them.

The recipe is linked from the above article.

]]> By: Guillaume http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2009/11/11/why-sci-fi-shows-are-dying/#comment-8635 Guillaume Fri, 13 Nov 2009 02:21:38 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/?p=4723#comment-8635 A show can be good without registering that many viewers, personnally I really liked these first Stargate Universe episodes... I think the characters are well introduced, they are human and it feels like a good second reality. There is some good intrigues like the weird interferences when they travel through the devices... I also really like this ambiance a la Firefly. But you know, it can't please everyone. What is so cool about Lost is the mistery and how it's brought. The show in itself is not incredible, its not as epic as you seem to think... its just a bunch of guys on an island who are trying to survive while encountering weird phenomenons. This is just about mysteries. If they finally revealed these numerous mysteries I wonder if you would still like this show because as much as they would want people to like their ideas they wouldn't surprise you, they wouldn't please you. Because as soon as the thing is revealed you will be disappointed. Many people I know gave up on Lost because they were tired of all these mysteries and a story that doesn't evolve fast enough and felt they were being played... TV should not become what music now has become, writers shouldn't have to worry about pleasing to everyone. Making a simple hit just by putting more characters or presenting big special effects. If you think you know the recipe then send it to them. Also, about the "there’s no sound in space"... Seriously? Who cares?! Come on! Like l3v1 said, there is so much good american stuff being cancelled because of this rating system. Millennium, Dark Angel, Firefly, Tru Calling, Invasion, Mysterious ways just to name a few. A show can be good without registering that many viewers, personnally I really liked these first Stargate Universe episodes… I think the characters are well introduced, they are human and it feels like a good second reality. There is some good intrigues like the weird interferences when they travel through the devices… I also really like this ambiance a la Firefly. But you know, it can’t please everyone.

What is so cool about Lost is the mistery and how it’s brought. The show in itself is not incredible, its not as epic as you seem to think… its just a bunch of guys on an island who are trying to survive while encountering weird phenomenons. This is just about mysteries. If they finally revealed these numerous mysteries I wonder if you would still like this show because as much as they would want people to like their ideas they wouldn’t surprise you, they wouldn’t please you. Because as soon as the thing is revealed you will be disappointed.

Many people I know gave up on Lost because they were tired of all these mysteries and a story that doesn’t evolve fast enough and felt they were being played… TV should not become what music now has become, writers shouldn’t have to worry about pleasing to everyone. Making a simple hit just by putting more characters or presenting big special effects. If you think you know the recipe then send it to them.

Also, about the “there’s no sound in space”… Seriously? Who cares?! Come on!

Like l3v1 said, there is so much good american stuff being cancelled because of this rating system.

Millennium, Dark Angel, Firefly, Tru Calling, Invasion, Mysterious ways just to name a few.

]]> By: Chris http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2009/11/11/why-sci-fi-shows-are-dying/#comment-8631 Chris Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:47:03 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/?p=4723#comment-8631 I was very disappointed by the new V. Probably because I loved the original one, and although there is some decent cast, characters are either terrible (eg. Anna) or way too predictable (eg. the priest, FBI agent). Sarah Connor's chronicles had the same problem and died fast. SGU is going same way. I thought Flash-forward had at least a very original storyline. But the development of characters also lack. Problem is that good show (Firefly) don't survive. So I am not sure what makes it that SciFi don't/cannot exist anymore. To be fair Babylon5 was pretty bad first season, and really become the show I loved with the 2nd season (and change of cast). May be just shows don't have the time to become good anymore. I was very disappointed by the new V. Probably because I loved the original one, and although there is some decent cast, characters are either terrible (eg. Anna) or way too predictable (eg. the priest, FBI agent). Sarah Connor’s chronicles had the same problem and died fast. SGU is going same way.

I thought Flash-forward had at least a very original storyline. But the development of characters also lack.

Problem is that good show (Firefly) don’t survive. So I am not sure what makes it that SciFi don’t/cannot exist anymore.

To be fair Babylon5 was pretty bad first season, and really become the show I loved with the 2nd season (and change of cast). May be just shows don’t have the time to become good anymore.

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