Comments on: A solution to the Macedonia-Greece problem http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/ Sat, 06 Sep 2008 20:24:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2 By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6181 Eugenia Sun, 02 Mar 2008 04:28:10 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6181 Thom, I know that you are as much of a nationalist as Greeks are, so I don't expect different from you in particular. >And yes, I’m goddamn proud of that So, YOU brought arts and sciences to the world? Give me a fucking break. Be proud only of the things you accomplished, not others. Thom, I know that you are as much of a nationalist as Greeks are, so I don’t expect different from you in particular.

>And yes, I’m goddamn proud of that

So, YOU brought arts and sciences to the world? Give me a fucking break. Be proud only of the things you accomplished, not others.

]]> By: Thom Holwerda http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6177 Thom Holwerda Sun, 02 Mar 2008 03:42:41 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6177 <i>Being a nationalist/ethinicist is a form of racism. It’s fucking stupid.</i> Sovereignty is one of the greatest goods a person carries with them. Sovereignty of self, the body, thoughts, ideas, experience, emotions - but also sovereignty of identity. I'm proud to be Dutch. Not because we Dutch are oh-so-great (we aren't, we are a whiny bunch of mindless morons) or because our history was oh-so-great (it wasn't, we seriously fcuked up the entire world with our aggressive and ruthless exploitation of the world when we were the superpower of the world), but simply because we, the Dutch people, have also brought a lot of good things into this world. Religious freedom, our major contributions to the arts as well as the sciences, total equality of all men and women by law - no matter your sex, colour, religion, or sexual preference. Every person in The Netherlands has the exact same rights as any other Dutch person - with that, we are one of the few countries in the world without any law-enforced apartheid. I'm proud of my Monarchy, our excellent and well-thought out political system dripping over with self-healing capabilities and plurality, and a few other things too. Like Old Alkmaar Cheese. And yes, I'm goddamn proud of that - especially now, when right-wing fascists are knocking on our doors trying to undo what we have accomplished. Does that make me a racist, Eugenia? Then so be it. As usual, nuance is a word you simply don't understand. Yes, I'm proud of the good things we have achieved, but I'm not blind to all the bad things we did either. I know them, and acknowledge them. I also do not consider the Dutch to be superior to any other people out there. In some areas, yes, we are clearly ahead of the rest of the world - but on so many others, we are hopelessly stuck in the middle ages compared to the rest of the world. It's possible to be proud of one's sovereignty without it having anything to do with feelings of superiority or racism, Eugenia. Get out more, for god's sake, meet new people. The world can't be grasped through the internet. Being a nationalist/ethinicist is a form of racism. It’s fucking stupid.

Sovereignty is one of the greatest goods a person carries with them. Sovereignty of self, the body, thoughts, ideas, experience, emotions - but also sovereignty of identity.

I’m proud to be Dutch. Not because we Dutch are oh-so-great (we aren’t, we are a whiny bunch of mindless morons) or because our history was oh-so-great (it wasn’t, we seriously fcuked up the entire world with our aggressive and ruthless exploitation of the world when we were the superpower of the world), but simply because we, the Dutch people, have also brought a lot of good things into this world. Religious freedom, our major contributions to the arts as well as the sciences, total equality of all men and women by law - no matter your sex, colour, religion, or sexual preference. Every person in The Netherlands has the exact same rights as any other Dutch person - with that, we are one of the few countries in the world without any law-enforced apartheid. I’m proud of my Monarchy, our excellent and well-thought out political system dripping over with self-healing capabilities and plurality, and a few other things too. Like Old Alkmaar Cheese.

And yes, I’m goddamn proud of that - especially now, when right-wing fascists are knocking on our doors trying to undo what we have accomplished. Does that make me a racist, Eugenia? Then so be it.

As usual, nuance is a word you simply don’t understand. Yes, I’m proud of the good things we have achieved, but I’m not blind to all the bad things we did either. I know them, and acknowledge them. I also do not consider the Dutch to be superior to any other people out there. In some areas, yes, we are clearly ahead of the rest of the world - but on so many others, we are hopelessly stuck in the middle ages compared to the rest of the world.

It’s possible to be proud of one’s sovereignty without it having anything to do with feelings of superiority or racism, Eugenia.

Get out more, for god’s sake, meet new people. The world can’t be grasped through the internet.

]]> By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6172 Eugenia Sat, 01 Mar 2008 23:25:50 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6172 <em>>You obviously have no respect for your ethniticiy</em> Of course I don't. In fact, I think lowly of people who do. I find them SILLY. I LOVE Greece, as "my home", the "place I grew up" and where "my friends are". I miss my home so dearly. At nights sometimes I cry when I remember of my village. I am still Greek, with a Greek passport, because that's where I am from (and if you ask me, there should be no passports anywhere in the world -- I am all for open borders). But I AM NOT a nationalist. I AM NOT a chauvinist. I DON'T believe in "races" and "ethnicities". For me, EVERY BEING on this planet is the SAME in all levels. SAME. I don't divide people depending on where they were born. Being a nationalist/ethinicist is a form of racism. It's fucking stupid. It's what politicians INJECT so they can CONTROL. Get over the "wow, I was born Greek! Greeks have such a great history, I am so blessed". Wake up and smell the fucking coffee. Be proud only for the things YOU did, not for the things you unknowingly inherited. I lived 22 years in Greece. It's where I am from. But I have also lived in Germany, UK, France and USA. Maybe that's why I am over the illusion that Greeks are somehow superior beings. We aren't. We are just people, and if you go even further back in time (and not stop your counting at 500 B.C. <em>just because it suits you</em>), you had the same mothers and fathers as anybody else. So, get over it. If I can't convince you, I suggest you read <a href="http://www.ndimou.gr/books1_gr.asp" rel="nofollow">this</a>, <a href="http://www.ndimou.gr/articledisplay.asp?cat_parent=2&time_id=428&cat_id=2" rel="nofollow">this</a> (the first answer suits very well this blog post), and <a href="http://www.ndimou.gr/articledisplay.asp?cat_parent=2&time_id=428&cat_id=2" rel="nofollow">this</a>. Do not reply before you read the last link. >You obviously have no respect for your ethniticiy

Of course I don’t. In fact, I think lowly of people who do. I find them SILLY.

I LOVE Greece, as “my home”, the “place I grew up” and where “my friends are”. I miss my home so dearly. At nights sometimes I cry when I remember of my village. I am still Greek, with a Greek passport, because that’s where I am from (and if you ask me, there should be no passports anywhere in the world — I am all for open borders). But I AM NOT a nationalist. I AM NOT a chauvinist. I DON’T believe in “races” and “ethnicities”.

For me, EVERY BEING on this planet is the SAME in all levels. SAME. I don’t divide people depending on where they were born. Being a nationalist/ethinicist is a form of racism. It’s fucking stupid. It’s what politicians INJECT so they can CONTROL. Get over the “wow, I was born Greek! Greeks have such a great history, I am so blessed”. Wake up and smell the fucking coffee. Be proud only for the things YOU did, not for the things you unknowingly inherited.

I lived 22 years in Greece. It’s where I am from. But I have also lived in Germany, UK, France and USA. Maybe that’s why I am over the illusion that Greeks are somehow superior beings. We aren’t. We are just people, and if you go even further back in time (and not stop your counting at 500 B.C. just because it suits you), you had the same mothers and fathers as anybody else. So, get over it.

If I can’t convince you, I suggest you read this, this (the first answer suits very well this blog post), and this. Do not reply before you read the last link.

]]> By: Petros http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6171 Petros Sat, 01 Mar 2008 23:18:31 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6171 Just like the Macedonians the Spartans were called barbarians by the Athenians. Open a real book and read and then tell me different. How can you say who cares? You obviously have no respect for your ethniticiy or you wouldnt by posting nonsense like this. Just like the Macedonians the Spartans were called barbarians by the Athenians. Open a real book and read and then tell me different.

How can you say who cares? You obviously have no respect for your ethniticiy or you wouldnt by posting nonsense like this.

]]> By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6166 Eugenia Sat, 01 Mar 2008 21:22:21 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6166 >The Athenians called the Spartans barbarians No they didn't. They called them Greeks. Some of them called the Macedonians barbarians. Read your history. And even if they were part of the Greek culture at one time, who cares? Why such a fuss over a name? The whole point of NATO/EU is to be on the same side, so I don't see the fears of Greeks for invasion justified. >The Athenians called the Spartans barbarians

No they didn’t. They called them Greeks. Some of them called the Macedonians barbarians. Read your history.

And even if they were part of the Greek culture at one time, who cares? Why such a fuss over a name? The whole point of NATO/EU is to be on the same side, so I don’t see the fears of Greeks for invasion justified.

]]> By: Dienekes http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6165 Dienekes Sat, 01 Mar 2008 21:11:20 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6165 fYROM is a small fraction of the geographical region of Macedonia. Moreover, Slav Macedonians are only a fraction of the linguistic diversity of the geographical region of Macedonia. It is absurd that the part should lay a claim to the whole. "Republic of Upper Macedonia" or "Republic of Slav Macedonia" would disambiguate the name of fYROM, by describing it geographically or linguistically. However, even such a reasonable compromise seems to be unacceptable to the Slav Macedonians. fYROM is a small fraction of the geographical region of Macedonia. Moreover, Slav Macedonians are only a fraction of the linguistic diversity of the geographical region of Macedonia.

It is absurd that the part should lay a claim to the whole. “Republic of Upper Macedonia” or “Republic of Slav Macedonia” would disambiguate the name of fYROM, by describing it geographically or linguistically. However, even such a reasonable compromise seems to be unacceptable to the Slav Macedonians.

]]> By: Petros http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6163 Petros Sat, 01 Mar 2008 20:42:40 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6163 Eugenia you obviously dont know your history quite well when it comes down to Greece. The Athenians called the Spartans barbarians so does that make them non Greek? Your answer is obviously no. Only Greeks were able to participate in the Olympics correct? Yes so if Macedonians were not Greek then why where they allowed to participate? The Macedonians clearly worshipped Ancient Greek gods. Most ancient historians clearly indicate that Macedonians were Greek. As for you idea about FYROM being incorporated into Greece is hilarious. Learn about history, geography and then talk. Thanks.. Eugenia you obviously dont know your history quite well when it comes down to Greece.
The Athenians called the Spartans barbarians so does that make them non Greek? Your answer is obviously no.
Only Greeks were able to participate in the Olympics correct? Yes so if Macedonians were not Greek then why where they allowed to participate?
The Macedonians clearly worshipped Ancient Greek gods.
Most ancient historians clearly indicate that Macedonians were Greek.

As for you idea about FYROM being incorporated into Greece is hilarious. Learn about history, geography and then talk. Thanks..

]]> By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6162 Eugenia Sat, 01 Mar 2008 20:18:41 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6162 >How about the Republic of Macedonia joining Bulgaria? Go ahead, by all means. >How about the Republic of Macedonia joining Bulgaria?

Go ahead, by all means.

]]> By: Dimitar http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6157 Dimitar Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:01:45 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6157 How about the Republic of Macedonia joining Bulgaria? Macedonians did consider themselves Bulgarians until 1944. And also consider the other major "Macedonian" icons - the IMRO(Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization), tzar Samuel(Самуил), Kliment of Ohrid, king Marko are Bulgarian? We have much more common history, we have the same language, the same alphabet (or almost, because they use the Serb version of it). How about the Republic of Macedonia joining Bulgaria? Macedonians did consider themselves Bulgarians until 1944. And also consider the other major “Macedonian” icons - the IMRO(Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization), tzar Samuel(Самуил), Kliment of Ohrid, king Marko are Bulgarian? We have much more common history, we have the same language, the same alphabet (or almost, because they use the Serb version of it).

]]> By: john http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6153 john Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:50:26 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/29/a-solution-to-the-macedonia-greece-problem/#comment-6153 i kindof agree with this article,everyone can call themselves wat they like,i dont know why greeks r being childish over these things,yes thats true there was no greek name in the ancient times,and the greeks accepted the macedonians as barbarians,now in modern times there just making trouble out of nothing! i kindof agree with this article,everyone can call themselves wat they like,i dont know why greeks r being childish over these things,yes thats true there was no greek name in the ancient times,and the greeks accepted the macedonians as barbarians,now in modern times there just making trouble out of nothing!

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