<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.2.2" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Machines &#8216;to match man by 2029&#8242;</title>
	<link>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2</generator>

	<item>
		<title>By: Vassilis Perantzakis</title>
		<link>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5887</link>
		<author>Vassilis Perantzakis</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5887</guid>
		<description>I don't think we are going to see a mr.Data soon... The complexity of AI is so great that no hardware available today can cope even if the software existed. 2100 is too soon... I am betting middle 23rd century... (see Star Trek: Noonien Sung)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think we are going to see a mr.Data soon&#8230; The complexity of AI is so great that no hardware available today can cope even if the software existed. 2100 is too soon&#8230; I am betting middle 23rd century&#8230; (see Star Trek: Noonien Sung)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5883</link>
		<author>Jim</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 04:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5883</guid>
		<description>I think you folks are not familiar a German research program known as the Super Human Intelligence Technological Enterprise.
They have perfected the science for AI, currently they are testing their discoveries on a German Dairy with a program known as the Bovine Super Human Intelligence Technological Enterprise
commonly known as Bull S.H.I.T.E.
S.H.I.T.E. has actually been around for a long time, but leave it up to German Science to get there first. Go Figure!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you folks are not familiar a German research program known as the Super Human Intelligence Technological Enterprise.<br />
They have perfected the science for AI, currently they are testing their discoveries on a German Dairy with a program known as the Bovine Super Human Intelligence Technological Enterprise<br />
commonly known as Bull S.H.I.T.E.<br />
S.H.I.T.E. has actually been around for a long time, but leave it up to German Science to get there first. Go Figure!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jeff</title>
		<link>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5882</link>
		<author>jeff</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 03:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5882</guid>
		<description>2029, the date he used which matches the terminator 2 plot, isn't viable.  The inventor forgot that in the movie they also had time travel, which probably allowed accelerated advancement of technology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2029, the date he used which matches the terminator 2 plot, isn&#8217;t viable.  The inventor forgot that in the movie they also had time travel, which probably allowed accelerated advancement of technology.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: M</title>
		<link>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5880</link>
		<author>M</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 22:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5880</guid>
		<description>I think it can be done, perhaps not in 2029 but someday. Not by using ai software but trying to imitate the brain in hardware. I think some team has emulated a half rat brain in 1/10 of real time using 4096 processors. A human mind requires a few more processors but that is only a question of time, 20, 50 or 100 years. Unless we humans disappears before, which is perhaps more probably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it can be done, perhaps not in 2029 but someday. Not by using ai software but trying to imitate the brain in hardware. I think some team has emulated a half rat brain in 1/10 of real time using 4096 processors. A human mind requires a few more processors but that is only a question of time, 20, 50 or 100 years. Unless we humans disappears before, which is perhaps more probably.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thom Holwerda</title>
		<link>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5875</link>
		<author>Thom Holwerda</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5875</guid>
		<description>Intelligence implies unexpected behaviour. How do you program unexpected behaviour? Even if you find out how to do that - if unexpected behaviour is programmed, is it still unexpected?

It won't happen. We will destroy our current civilisation before we can ever get that far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Intelligence implies unexpected behaviour. How do you program unexpected behaviour? Even if you find out how to do that - if unexpected behaviour is programmed, is it still unexpected?</p>
<p>It won&#8217;t happen. We will destroy our current civilisation before we can ever get that far.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cesar</title>
		<link>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5874</link>
		<author>Cesar</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5874</guid>
		<description>Evolutionary computation, spiking neuron models plus the advances in developmental biology is the way.

Just some notes:

(1) Evolution not in the sense of optimization (as it's usually applied), but adaptation (Darwin's theory is a simple and elegant algorithm);

(2) Solving the full Hodgkin-Huxley set of equations demands extreme computational power, but that won't be a problem in the future. For the time being we can stick to simpler models and we're well served;

(3) Yet we don't know how to wire the network, and our best guess is: let artificial evolution alone take care of it;

(4) Embodiment: intelligence (i.e., adaptive behavior) is an emergent process (following the view of the New AI) and can't come to existence without a body and its interactions with the environment;

(5) We must begin to study simple artificial organism before going to the more advanced ones (bottom-up approach).

These are just some points I'm currently working on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evolutionary computation, spiking neuron models plus the advances in developmental biology is the way.</p>
<p>Just some notes:</p>
<p>(1) Evolution not in the sense of optimization (as it&#8217;s usually applied), but adaptation (Darwin&#8217;s theory is a simple and elegant algorithm);</p>
<p>(2) Solving the full Hodgkin-Huxley set of equations demands extreme computational power, but that won&#8217;t be a problem in the future. For the time being we can stick to simpler models and we&#8217;re well served;</p>
<p>(3) Yet we don&#8217;t know how to wire the network, and our best guess is: let artificial evolution alone take care of it;</p>
<p>(4) Embodiment: intelligence (i.e., adaptive behavior) is an emergent process (following the view of the New AI) and can&#8217;t come to existence without a body and its interactions with the environment;</p>
<p>(5) We must begin to study simple artificial organism before going to the more advanced ones (bottom-up approach).</p>
<p>These are just some points I&#8217;m currently working on.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: irbis</title>
		<link>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5873</link>
		<author>irbis</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 12:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5873</guid>
		<description>Ok, Eugenia. Thanks for the hint.

As to human intelligence and thinking, I wonder if there's any kind of real (human) intelligence without the understanding of language too? And to understand language, in an intelligent way, one also has to understand human culture, values etc.

Of course, also animals like dogs, parrots or even cuttlefish have some kind of ability to solve simple problems, without the need for real language. Maybe that kind of "dog" intelligence could be a better goal for AI researchers than trying to make machines understand human thinking?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, Eugenia. Thanks for the hint.</p>
<p>As to human intelligence and thinking, I wonder if there&#8217;s any kind of real (human) intelligence without the understanding of language too? And to understand language, in an intelligent way, one also has to understand human culture, values etc.</p>
<p>Of course, also animals like dogs, parrots or even cuttlefish have some kind of ability to solve simple problems, without the need for real language. Maybe that kind of &#8220;dog&#8221; intelligence could be a better goal for AI researchers than trying to make machines understand human thinking?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eugenia</title>
		<link>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5872</link>
		<author>Eugenia</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 12:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5872</guid>
		<description>Everyone, please use HTML for links (around normal words), do NOT copy/paste just bare URLs on my blog. Thanks. Irbis, I had to edit your comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone, please use HTML for links (around normal words), do NOT copy/paste just bare URLs on my blog. Thanks. Irbis, I had to edit your comment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: irbis</title>
		<link>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5871</link>
		<author>irbis</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 12:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5871</guid>
		<description>Simulating human thinking in the sense of "strong AI" is really, really difficult. Human mind is not just a calculator combined with a chatterbox. There's also senses and other human biology, feelings, relationships, culture, complicated languages, human history, independent thinking abilities, values and goals etc. - all those things that may make people talk about human soul too instead of just intelligence.

Weaker AI in the sense of expert systems etc. does work, but expert systems have nothing to do with real thinking. Those computers and programs are just tools that people use, a bit more complicated calculators combined with human made databases of information collected by people.

I seriously doubt man-made machines could ever reach the level of strong AI. Even if they came a bit closer - theoretically - they would probably still depend on their human programmers so much that they could be described only as tools that people use and that depend on people. Movies or games may simulate things in life rather well - but they are still just movies and games, made by people.

A classic (and funny) long two part article "Artificial Stpidity" by John Sundman still shows how far we are from simulating human mind with computers. Read it, be educated, and have a few good laughs too: 

&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href="http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2003/02/26/loebner_part_one/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Artificial stupidity&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; (part 1)
&lt;i&gt;The saga of Hugh Loebner and his search for an intelligent bot has almost everything: Sex, lawsuits and feuding computer scientists. There's only one thing missing: Smart machines.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href="http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2003/02/27/loebner_part_2/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Artificial stupidity&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt;, Part 2
&lt;i&gt;Can chatterbots be as dumb as a box of hammers and still pass the Turing test? Go ask ALICE, she might know.&lt;/i&gt;

I just found another good article on the same subject too:

&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-76167334.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;The Dream of A.I.: There is no substitute for man&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; by Derbyshire, John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simulating human thinking in the sense of &#8220;strong AI&#8221; is really, really difficult. Human mind is not just a calculator combined with a chatterbox. There&#8217;s also senses and other human biology, feelings, relationships, culture, complicated languages, human history, independent thinking abilities, values and goals etc. - all those things that may make people talk about human soul too instead of just intelligence.</p>
<p>Weaker AI in the sense of expert systems etc. does work, but expert systems have nothing to do with real thinking. Those computers and programs are just tools that people use, a bit more complicated calculators combined with human made databases of information collected by people.</p>
<p>I seriously doubt man-made machines could ever reach the level of strong AI. Even if they came a bit closer - theoretically - they would probably still depend on their human programmers so much that they could be described only as tools that people use and that depend on people. Movies or games may simulate things in life rather well - but they are still just movies and games, made by people.</p>
<p>A classic (and funny) long two part article &#8220;Artificial Stpidity&#8221; by John Sundman still shows how far we are from simulating human mind with computers. Read it, be educated, and have a few good laughs too: </p>
<p><b><a href="http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2003/02/26/loebner_part_one/" rel="nofollow">Artificial stupidity</a></b> (part 1)<br />
<i>The saga of Hugh Loebner and his search for an intelligent bot has almost everything: Sex, lawsuits and feuding computer scientists. There&#8217;s only one thing missing: Smart machines.</i></p>
<p><b><a href="http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2003/02/27/loebner_part_2/" rel="nofollow">Artificial stupidity</a></b>, Part 2<br />
<i>Can chatterbots be as dumb as a box of hammers and still pass the Turing test? Go ask ALICE, she might know.</i></p>
<p>I just found another good article on the same subject too:</p>
<p><b><a href="http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-76167334.html" rel="nofollow">The Dream of A.I.: There is no substitute for man</a></b> by Derbyshire, John</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eugenia</title>
		<link>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5870</link>
		<author>Eugenia</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/02/16/machines-to-match-man-by-2029/#comment-5870</guid>
		<description>Ivan, AI requires lots of knowledge in order to be deemed "intelligent". And lots of knowledge means lots of data. Moving so much data around in an instant, and process them, is not something that can be done in a garage. I learned that much from my first job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ivan, AI requires lots of knowledge in order to be deemed &#8220;intelligent&#8221;. And lots of knowledge means lots of data. Moving so much data around in an instant, and process them, is not something that can be done in a garage. I learned that much from my first job.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
