Comments on: The truth about the Linux kernel http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/ Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:33:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2 By: KCorax http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-875 KCorax Sun, 13 May 2007 18:38:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-875 OMFG Trent, so now I’m a fascist ? Have you heard of NDAs ? What happens with free speech there ? OMFG Trent, so now I’m a fascist ? Have you heard of NDAs ? What happens with free speech there ?

]]> By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-879 Eugenia Sun, 13 May 2007 11:43:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-879 >limiting free speech in the context of team work is ethical, desired or possible. There are times where it is ethical and desirable. But I don’t think that this time qualifies as such. >limiting free speech in the context of team work is ethical, desired or possible.

There are times where it is ethical and desirable. But I don’t think that this time qualifies as such.

]]> By: KCorax http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-878 KCorax Sun, 13 May 2007 11:08:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-878 Obviously so. That was a comment as to weather limiting free speech in the context of team work is ethical, desired or possible. Open applies to code not dev methodology. There’s plenty of software that is open where developers stay mum about problems, or find <a href="http://primates.ximian.com/~jackson/blog/archive2006/Aug-31.html" rel="nofollow">less destructive ways </a> to say just what they wanted to. See Redhat, Novell, JBoss etc. Obviously so. That was a comment as to weather limiting free speech in the context of team work is ethical, desired or possible.

Open applies to code not dev methodology. There’s plenty of software that is open where developers stay mum about problems, or find less destructive ways to say just what they wanted to. See Redhat, Novell, JBoss etc.

]]> By: Trent J. Townsend http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-877 Trent J. Townsend Sun, 13 May 2007 11:05:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-877 Eugenia beat me to it KCorax… The minute a project requires NDAs is the moment it ceases to be an open project. Last I checked, core Linux development required no such thing… Eugenia beat me to it KCorax… The minute a project requires NDAs is the moment it ceases to be an open project.

Last I checked, core Linux development required no such thing…

]]> By: Trent J. Townsend http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-874 Trent J. Townsend Sun, 13 May 2007 08:11:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-874 Mind boggling some of the responses you get from people after hearing that Linux is indeed as crappy as most other software on the planet. I do agree with the idea that openness with its failings can only help to make things better and am absolutely bewildered at posts from people who say that the Arch Linux maintainer had no right to speak of such things in public. Freedom of speech anyone? Its a freaking kernel for crying out loud ;^) Mind boggling some of the responses you get from people after hearing that Linux is indeed as crappy as most other software on the planet.

I do agree with the idea that openness with its failings can only help to make things better and am absolutely bewildered at posts from people who say that the Arch Linux maintainer had no right to speak of such things in public.

Freedom of speech anyone? Its a freaking kernel for crying out loud ;^)

]]> By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-876 Eugenia Sun, 13 May 2007 06:59:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-876 The Linux kernel does not require any NDAs, it is an open platform. Emphasis on the word “open”. The Linux kernel does not require any NDAs, it is an open platform. Emphasis on the word “open”.

]]> By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-873 Eugenia Sat, 12 May 2007 09:26:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-873 KCorax, this is where we disagree. At that point exactly. Your goal is to do “damage control”, while I am all about telling the truth to the community. I am sorry, but I don’t think that the way you see things in this case is a very objective one, or the right thing to do or even… fair! Younger developers who would want to hack on the kernel must KNOW where they are getting into. Because otherwise, their expectations will be crashed. Besides, by saying that something sucks, eventually would make people wanna fix it. I believe that what James did was the right thing, he told the truth, and BECAUSE of that reason, things will get better. Not worse. You seem to be afraid of what Microsoft will do or say. I don’t. Let them say whatever they want. As I said earlier, if you don’t want others to discuss your hygiene, go have a bath. Do not hide the truth under 3 winter coats. KCorax, this is where we disagree. At that point exactly.

Your goal is to do “damage control”, while I am all about telling the truth to the community. I am sorry, but I don’t think that the way you see things in this case is a very objective one, or the right thing to do or even… fair! Younger developers who would want to hack on the kernel must KNOW where they are getting into. Because otherwise, their expectations will be crashed. Besides, by saying that something sucks, eventually would make people wanna fix it.

I believe that what James did was the right thing, he told the truth, and BECAUSE of that reason, things will get better. Not worse.

You seem to be afraid of what Microsoft will do or say. I don’t. Let them say whatever they want. As I said earlier, if you don’t want others to discuss your hygiene, go have a bath. Do not hide the truth under 3 winter coats.

]]> By: KCorax http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-872 KCorax Sat, 12 May 2007 08:04:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-872 I believe that a developer who chooses to participate in a project like that is motivated by more things than the money which is obviously not there. There is a vision with OSS, which at this point no one has the right to trash. This isn’t about ethics, it’s about sustainability. A kernel is obviously a hell of a place to work in, but we shouldn’t discourage those young developers looking to get in. You don’t bitch publicly in a project like that regardless of weather you are righteous or qualified in doing so. It’s unprofessional and in this case a PR disaster. You mail some people privately and move out with a ‘thx for all the fish’ notice. I believe that a developer who chooses to participate in a project like that is motivated by more things than the money which is obviously not there. There is a vision with OSS, which at this point no one has the right to trash.

This isn’t about ethics, it’s about sustainability. A kernel is obviously a hell of a place to work in, but we shouldn’t discourage those young developers looking to get in.

You don’t bitch publicly in a project like that regardless of weather you are righteous or qualified in doing so. It’s unprofessional and in this case a PR disaster. You mail some people privately and move out with a ‘thx for all the fish’ notice.

]]> By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-871 Eugenia Sat, 12 May 2007 06:53:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-871 > <i>I strongly disagree however with a core developer on the kernel *fucking* openly saying this.</i> The developer is not an OSDL employee, but a kernel maintainer of a distro. So, he doesn’t answer to OSDL, and he SHOULD BE FREE to make such statements. It is his right, it is his blood and sweat that he put into maintaining/fixing the kernel for 2 years now. He should have the right to express his opinion on the state of the kernel, just as he did. In fact, without telling the truth out there, things might never get fixed. I find his openess very positive for the project. Now, if MS uses it for an ad, that’s completely beside the point. It is like saying that you don’t want people to talk behind your back that you didn’t have a bath for a month, but on the other hand you still don’t go and have a bath! > <i>I think it has more to do with the size of the Project and the amount of money involved, and the company mindset behind the project.</i> OSDL took responsibility of a kernel that is extremely popular and much-used. For that reason alone, they should hire pro testers. If they don’t have the money, they should release control of the kernel to a company/organization that does. It’s about *responsibility*. > I strongly disagree however with a core developer on the kernel *fucking* openly saying this.

The developer is not an OSDL employee, but a kernel maintainer of a distro. So, he doesn’t answer to OSDL, and he SHOULD BE FREE to make such statements. It is his right, it is his blood and sweat that he put into maintaining/fixing the kernel for 2 years now. He should have the right to express his opinion on the state of the kernel, just as he did. In fact, without telling the truth out there, things might never get fixed. I find his openess very positive for the project. Now, if MS uses it for an ad, that’s completely beside the point. It is like saying that you don’t want people to talk behind your back that you didn’t have a bath for a month, but on the other hand you still don’t go and have a bath!

> I think it has more to do with the size of the Project and the amount of money involved, and the company mindset behind the project.

OSDL took responsibility of a kernel that is extremely popular and much-used. For that reason alone, they should hire pro testers. If they don’t have the money, they should release control of the kernel to a company/organization that does. It’s about *responsibility*.

]]> By: KCorax http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-870 KCorax Sat, 12 May 2007 06:29:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/05/10/the-truth-about-the-linux-kernel/#comment-870 I believe testing with ‘pro’ tools looks <a href="http://mono.ximian.com/tests/displayTestResults.php" rel="nofollow">sth like this</a> and certainly ran over a room of diverse machines for each hardware combination they ‘officially’ support. If OSDL can’t sustain that then the HW makers of these architectures should. People who don’t know squat about mission critical dev should keep abstain from making emotionally charged comments. Btw in Microsoft for every developer position they hire a mirroring ‘developer in test’ and they still have problems. I strongly disagree however with a core developer on the kernel *fucking* openly saying this. I don’t expect a developer to understand politics but I think OSDL should fucking censor sth like that. I can see the ms evangelists screaming the quote over rooftops, in context with their still-on ‘get the facts’ campaign. I believe testing with ‘pro’ tools looks sth like this and certainly ran over a room of diverse machines for each hardware combination they ‘officially’ support. If OSDL can’t sustain that then the HW makers of these architectures should.

People who don’t know squat about mission critical dev should keep abstain from making emotionally charged comments. Btw in Microsoft for every developer position they hire a mirroring ‘developer in test’ and they still have problems.

I strongly disagree however with a core developer on the kernel *fucking* openly saying this. I don’t expect a developer to understand politics but I think OSDL should fucking censor sth like that. I can see the ms evangelists screaming the quote over rooftops, in context with their still-on ‘get the facts’ campaign.

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