Comments on: Will the OLPC interface ruin computing for millions of kids? http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/ Mon, 08 Sep 2008 06:02:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2 By: Harry http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2335 Harry Tue, 28 Nov 2006 02:22:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2335 Hi everyone, I have made a new UI video demonstrating the collaborative features baked into the operating system. Now on: <a href='http://www.90percentofeverything.com' rel='nofollow'>http://www.90percentofeverything.com</a> There is also a youtube version (warning: fuzzy) in case my site goes down again. <a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAPHhGoq2OI' rel='nofollow'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAPHhGoq2OI</a> Hi everyone, I have made a new UI video demonstrating the collaborative features baked into the operating system. Now on:

http://www.90percentofeverything.com

There is also a youtube version (warning: fuzzy) in case my site goes down again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAPHhGoq2OI

]]> By: Kitty http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2334 Kitty Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:40:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2334 It’ s the second time you downplay it with the words “dummy text book” as if it was a diminishing. A book is basically about the content, not the form. I’d like to remark that there’s probably 100x times more information and educational value in the <i>content</i> that the children will be able to receive than in the tools themselves. Literally: they’ll use it for <i>years</i> to learn geography and history and maths, to read news from all over the world and even to learn some basic programming skills. That’s years of learning. It would probably take a children between <i>a day and a week</i> to learn to use any given interface, be it Windows or OS/X or Gnome. So, while I might not like the icons, or the specific ways the frame thingie works, or some other details, I understand the reasoning behind it: make it in fact more appliance-like in the sense that the interface is tasks-oriented. Remove everything from the interface that stands between the child and his/her goals of reading, writing, drawing, coding and communicating with other children. And btw, nobody commented about the way the project seems to be very social-oriented with its mesh-mapping representation of what all the nearby children are doing and how they are gathered. I have been told by people that worked on the field that in some places building a real community spirit is a very important part of the education for children that might have to walk 5 miles just to get from a distant village to the classroom. One day they’ll maybe have to use “real” interfaces for some reason. Big deal, they’ll learn whatever they need quickly. The only people that seem to give some value to “learning about a GUI” are those for which it was an effort. That’s 40+ years old office users and managers. For a child that kind of experience means basically zero effort and zero time when compared to real learning, and has thus zero value. It’ s the second time you downplay it with the words “dummy text book” as if it was a diminishing. A book is basically about the content, not the form.
I’d like to remark that there’s probably 100x times more information and educational value in the content that the children will be able to receive than in the tools themselves.
Literally: they’ll use it for years to learn geography and history and maths, to read news from all over the world and even to learn some basic programming skills. That’s years of learning. It would probably take a children between a day and a week to learn to use any given interface, be it Windows or OS/X or Gnome.
So, while I might not like the icons, or the specific ways the frame thingie works, or some other details, I understand the reasoning behind it: make it in fact more appliance-like in the sense that the interface is tasks-oriented. Remove everything from the interface that stands between the child and his/her goals of reading, writing, drawing, coding and communicating with other children.
And btw, nobody commented about the way the project seems to be very social-oriented with its mesh-mapping representation of what all the nearby children are doing and how they are gathered. I have been told by people that worked on the field that in some places building a real community spirit is a very important part of the education for children that might have to walk 5 miles just to get from a distant village to the classroom.
One day they’ll maybe have to use “real” interfaces for some reason. Big deal, they’ll learn whatever they need quickly. The only people that seem to give some value to “learning about a GUI” are those for which it was an effort. That’s 40+ years old office users and managers. For a child that kind of experience means basically zero effort and zero time when compared to real learning, and has thus zero value.

]]> By: ralph http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2326 ralph Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:18:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2326 Thom, use it first before commenting on it. You know, there are images for vmware, qemu, etc. available. Calling it a low-end mobile phone’s UI is just stupid. Eugenia, really, aren’t you the one always acting as if you were an usability expert? And you of all people can’t see that the UI is and has to be tuned to the device it will be used on and to the audience that will use the UI? Yes, it’s different from other interfaces, but it’s so with good reason. And no, knowing how to use a computer does not equal being trained in one particular kind of interface. If that were the case you could as well argue that children shouldn’t be allowed to use OSX as they will not be familiar with an application menu like the windows start menu. Really, I get the impression some people just have to bitch for bitching’s sake. Thom, use it first before commenting on it. You know, there are images for vmware, qemu, etc. available. Calling it a low-end mobile phone’s UI is just stupid.

Eugenia, really, aren’t you the one always acting as if you were an usability expert? And you of all people can’t see that the UI is and has to be tuned to the device it will be used on and to the audience that will use the UI?

Yes, it’s different from other interfaces, but it’s so with good reason. And no, knowing how to use a computer does not equal being trained in one particular kind of interface.

If that were the case you could as well argue that children shouldn’t be allowed to use OSX as they will not be familiar with an application menu like the windows start menu.

Really, I get the impression some people just have to bitch for bitching’s sake.

]]> By: Thom Holwerda http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2325 Thom Holwerda Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:52:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2325 JBQ, first go and see the actual video of the UI. Then, answer the following question: Does using a low-end mobile phone’s UI teach you anything about how to use Windows/GNOME/Mac/etc.? JBQ, first go and see the actual video of the UI. Then, answer the following question:

Does using a low-end mobile phone’s UI teach you anything about how to use Windows/GNOME/Mac/etc.?

]]> By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2333 Eugenia Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:38:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2333 If a UI is suitable for customers, it means that this UI must be learned by people who want to become real computer users at some point in their life. Therefore, the OLPC must function as a computer-learning device too, and not just as a dummy text book. If a UI is suitable for customers, it means that this UI must be learned by people who want to become real computer users at some point in their life. Therefore, the OLPC must function as a computer-learning device too, and not just as a dummy text book.

]]> By: Valkadesh http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2332 Valkadesh Sun, 26 Nov 2006 10:43:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2332 <i>I just don’t get it. There’s a reason why everybody tries to copy Apple and Microsoft. They spent millions of Dollars on UI research. The OLPC project has not.</i> Apple and MS have spent millions of dollar to create UIs suitable to their customers. But some of the people behind the OLPC project have spent thirty years studying how to use the computers to enhance learning, and there’s a big difference in that. I just don’t get it. There’s a reason why everybody tries to copy Apple and Microsoft. They spent millions of Dollars on UI research. The OLPC project has not.

Apple and MS have spent millions of dollar to create UIs suitable to their customers. But some of the people behind the OLPC project have spent thirty years studying how to use the computers to enhance learning, and there’s a big difference in that.

]]> By: Thom Holwerda http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2331 Thom Holwerda Sun, 26 Nov 2006 08:02:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2331 It feels like to me they are ‘using’ the OLPC project as some sort of testing ground for new ideas. And in all honesty, that’s just not very nice to those kids getting this thing. Why rely on new, unproven technology and ideas, when we have roughly two decades of <i>real world</i> usage when it comes to UI design? I just don’t get it. There’s a reason why everybody tries to copy Apple and Microsoft. <i>They spent millions of Dollars on UI research</i>. The OLPC project has not. It feels like to me they are ‘using’ the OLPC project as some sort of testing ground for new ideas. And in all honesty, that’s just not very nice to those kids getting this thing. Why rely on new, unproven technology and ideas, when we have roughly two decades of real world usage when it comes to UI design?

I just don’t get it. There’s a reason why everybody tries to copy Apple and Microsoft. They spent millions of Dollars on UI research. The OLPC project has not.

]]> By: Eugenia http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2330 Eugenia Sun, 26 Nov 2006 07:16:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2330 Personally, I believe that when people learn to use standard computer interfaces, they will be easier learn to use certain applications (e.g. browsers, spreadsheets etc). This is social progress, and it’s as important as general education. This is why I advocate that they should have cleaned up the Gnome interface and go with it, instead of creating an embedded appliance UI. Personally, I believe that when people learn to use standard computer interfaces, they will be easier learn to use certain applications (e.g. browsers, spreadsheets etc). This is social progress, and it’s as important as general education. This is why I advocate that they should have cleaned up the Gnome interface and go with it, instead of creating an embedded appliance UI.

]]> By: nbates http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2329 nbates Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:29:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2329 Eugenia. I learned to use computers with a Commodore 64 when I was about 9. This meant a command line BASIC. And here I am… I can use gnome, blackbox, enlightenment, the command line, windows XP and I’m sure I’ll survive Vista. Do you think the basics of computing are the start menu and the three buttons in the top right part of your windows? Maybe they are if you are a 30 year old who has to learn to use a pc to use Excel for work, but this are children, they can learn much more (think that the system will probably allow to use python to the children!). Really, the UI is not the point at all. Do you think the UI will be something “normal” when those kids grow up? Do you think you can predict what will they use? They only need to have a computer, get used to interact with computers, learn not to be afraid of them. Once they learn that they will be able to cope with whatever the future brings. Eugenia. I learned to use computers with a Commodore 64 when I was about 9. This meant a command line BASIC. And here I am… I can use gnome, blackbox, enlightenment, the command line, windows XP and I’m sure I’ll survive Vista.

Do you think the basics of computing are the start menu and the three buttons in the top right part of your windows? Maybe they are if you are a 30 year old who has to learn to use a pc to use Excel for work, but this are children, they can learn much more (think that the system will probably allow to use python to the children!).

Really, the UI is not the point at all. Do you think the UI will be something “normal” when those kids grow up? Do you think you can predict what will they use? They only need to have a computer, get used to interact with computers, learn not to be afraid of them. Once they learn that they will be able to cope with whatever the future brings.

]]> By: l3v1 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2328 l3v1 Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:14:00 +0000 http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2006/11/25/will-the-olpc-interface-ruin-computing-for-millions-of-kids/#comment-2328 Eugenia, Thom, I can’t agree with you here. While I also think to an extent, that a somewhat more “classical” ui approach would’ve been a better way to go, I don’t agree with anybody who says they should use a specific ui just so they get used to it, this is stupid, this is the philosophy that microsoft has pursued since ever. The point in teaching youngsters computer usage is not getting them stuck to a gui, but to give them the experience of using a computer. The more interfaces they use, the better for them. Why don’t you complain every time a pda, a phone, or an alternative os comes out with a somewhat different gui ? Yes, because it would be stupid. to do so. These children, people, should get to know what computers are, what they can be used for, and that with as simple interface as that can be, to make their learning curve as easy as it can be. Later this knowledge will be useful when trying to use different style guis to do the same things. And remember, these simple apps are not so different in functionality, which means less hassle and less trouble. By complaining about this general gui you just don’t think these people - or any other non-pc knowing people - could learn one way to do things and then get accustomed to do it another way. Why is that ? People are not dumb by their nature, just give them a chance and some time, and some opportunities and they will succeed. Eugenia, Thom, I can’t agree with you here. While I also think to an extent, that a somewhat more “classical” ui approach would’ve been a better way to go, I don’t agree with anybody who says they should use a specific ui just so they get used to it, this is stupid, this is the philosophy that microsoft has pursued since ever. The point in teaching youngsters computer usage is not getting them stuck to a gui, but to give them the experience of using a computer. The more interfaces they use, the better for them.
Why don’t you complain every time a pda, a phone, or an alternative os comes out with a somewhat different gui ? Yes, because it would be stupid. to do so.

These children, people, should get to know what computers are, what they can be used for, and that with as simple interface as that can be, to make their learning curve as easy as it can be. Later this knowledge will be useful when trying to use different style guis to do the same things. And remember, these simple apps are not so different in functionality, which means less hassle and less trouble.

By complaining about this general gui you just don’t think these people - or any other non-pc knowing people - could learn one way to do things and then get accustomed to do it another way. Why is that ? People are not dumb by their nature, just give them a chance and some time, and some opportunities and they will succeed.

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